Transcript
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Kwame
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I'm Kwame Appiah, head of influencer engagement at Later, and I'm one of your hosts.
Scott
Hey everyone, Scott here, excited for today's episode. Let's dive right in.
Kwame
Today we are very lucky to be joined by an actual Bachelorette, one of the most highly esteemed titles in today's society. Only 22 people in total have ever held this title. We are very excited to have Michelle Young with us today. Welcome to the show, Michelle.
Michelle
Thank you so much for having me.
Kwame
I'd love to start off by talking about your week. I know it's a holiday week. Any cool plans?
Michelle
Yes, it's Minnesota and the 4th of July. I read somewhere that Minnesota is like the number one place to celebrate the 4th of July. We have a huge lake on Lake Minnetonka. Obviously, we're like the land of the lakes. We will be out on the lake.
As for hanging out, my family is going up to the cabin this week. So a lot of family time and just spending time together, hoping the weather holds out.
Scott
I love to hear about your family. We were talking about this episode and just getting to talk to you. One of the things this show is about is spotlighting creators and their journeys, and giving back.
Through all the different parts of your journey, whether it's in athletics or being on TV or what you've done with your foundation and other work, it has always resonated through how much you cared about people, your family, and your hometown. It's so great for younger creators and young women looking up to you, the example that you provide.
Really thrilled to dive in today and hear about your journey.
Michelle
Well, this is a great start.
I have always just felt the most like myself anytime I was more focused on other people. I think that's how I was raised to operate and definitely try to continue that.
Kwame
Awesome. We're going to dive into all parts of your creative journey, but it does start somewhere. We'll touch on The Bachelorette just a bit in a funny backstory. When I lived in Portland, I got a call from the casting team at The Bachelorette. They said, hey, we had a friend put your name in.
The upcoming bachelorette, her name is Michelle Young, and so we're casting for her season.
Michelle
They cast pretty widely because I've had a few people tell me that too.
Kwame
Gotta love how it all works out though, because at the end of the day, full circle moment, we're both here. I'd love to know how you got involved in The Bachelor and The Bachelorette in general.
Michelle
Yeah, I still don't know how I got involved in The Bachelor. I was emailed by one of the producers and I thought it was spam at first. I wasn't active on social media; I had maybe two posts up, so they couldn't really reach me there, but they just kept reaching out and eventually, I responded, almost as a joke, thinking that it was fake and found out it was real.
They expedited my process pretty quickly because they had closed casting. They really wanted me to come on that season, and I said no quite a few times. Then, as COVID started to progress, I saw an opportunity for it and ended up taking it.
Scott
That's also going through that whole process. You said you just had a couple of social media posts. Was it like just this life-altering experience, getting thrown into the public eye, having all of you analyze your family, your relationships? How was that adjustment process for you?
Michelle
I grew up in a huge sports world, so as far as getting critiqued and having tough skin, I had that built in a bit just because I had gone through the whole Coach Carter experience with several of my coaches. So, once I got to that position, I really had a hold on whose opinion I valued and whose I did not.
That helped when it came to the social media Karens and the bullying and all of that stuff when it comes to the inner workings of social media and how much it becomes a part of your life.
I think that's the piece that I really struggled with because I just wanted to connect with people. The people who were around me and really teaching me the ways of social media, that very much had made it about the analytics, and you want growth and this and that.
And I was still trying to figure out what I wanted with my platform. I know that there are certain routes that typical people in this position take, but what do I want out of it? What are the pieces that I want? And I think that's what I really struggled with, figuring out which pieces I was supposed to be doing and that learning curve and which pieces were truly me.
I'm like, wait a second, I need to think with my own mind here and still make sure that it's my own and that I'm making the right moves for Michelle.
Kwame
It seems like a lot of progression there. It is a lot to get thrown into it. And then once it happens, you just get this massive spike and it's like, how do I deal with all this instability in so many ways, right? In your life and your social life? There's a mental aspect to it. You know what?
What would you say is one thing that you've learned from? And I know it's really hard always to pinpoint one thing, but is there something that you've taken away in terms of your experience that you think other people should know who encounter a situation like this?
Michelle
The balance of it's okay to use your own judgment on what you post. And there are times where you see all these viral trends, and there is this whole mental health piece behind it, and there's like this dopamine rush and you post something and it goes viral, or, you know, you've just come off the show and you have all this love.
But what I realized is that unfortunately, a lot of times when you're on these reality TV shows, that spotlight does go away. And I think a lot of people feel like their value goes away once that happens. And that's not the case. And that's a really hard adjustment. And that can be a really painful adjustment. And so understanding that it's not necessarily a reflection of you and that what you add or the path that you take afterward should be one that fulfills you and is meaningful to you because it's your life.
You get to decide, you know, you have to live in it. You get to decide what you want to post. You get to decide how often you show up. You get to decide what type of community you build, what you stand for, or what you don't stand for. But that's a lot of things that don't all come at one time.
It's really painful, and I know that I went through this not like an identity crisis necessarily. And mine was more so like the teaching with the social media. But just to understand that it's going to ebb and flow and during moments where you might not be getting as many likes or attention or whatever seems like this super important thing, you know, you were the Bachelorette and now you're no longer the Bachelorette does not mean you're less valuable, truly doesn't.
Just because people are now focused on another Bachelorette.
Scott
I love that. I think we, you know, we talk about the edit and how people are portrayed. And, you know, I think everyone saw such a great image of you and, you know, fell in love with you. And it's interesting because while some people are trying to dig out of the hole of this bad edit, I think there's also this pressure that comes with having a good edit.
And it's, you know, I fall down, I make mistakes, I don't want to be this perfect, like, always selfless person. And then there's this weird contradiction of, like, I do want to engage with my audience. I want to grow my following, but is it self-serving? And then you're like, questioning what you know, what are the right motives and all that, even for the best person.
So I'm like, how did you fight that? That struggle? Did you feel that struggle? Was that something you experienced?
Michelle
Huge. And I think I'm coming out of still feeling that struggle, just because I did go through this whole rebrand where I really tapped into more of like that motivational speaking and the, you know, the education piece, but not in a teacher role. And like you said, I appreciate that you recognize that having this other edit, I'm also human and I'm going to make mistakes, but also there was one side of me that was shown and I really felt like it was like the teaching side.
And there are so many different sides of me than just teaching. And part of the reason why I got the role as a Bachelorette was because of the bloopers from the other season, because there is, you know, women are screaming at each other, everyone's crying, and I'm over here, like just messing around, just not stressing about it.
And that is a huge side of me that lighthearted, goofy side, energetic side and that side wasn't really shown in the show where there are so many different funny moments, bloopers, and just behind-the-scenes stuff or moments where it was phenomenal, funny going back and conversation and be interrupted by producers. And so I think that was the piece that I really had to dig myself out of because I stepped away from the classroom and I made that decision.
And so now this teacher, Michelle, is the teacher, teacher, teacher, teacher. Now it's like, well, wow, she's, you know, she's a failure. Like, what are you doing with your life? You're not teaching anymore. You have no value because you're not the thing that we thought you were. And why should I stick around to see what you're going to do?
Because you're not going to do anything. And that is what I had to kind of, like, crawl and work my way out of, frankly, those people who think that way, I'm like, you're not the people I want in my circle anyways, so don't let the door hit you on the way out. But that thing of there's so many more sides to the lead or to the people who go on these reality TV shows that are not shown that people don't know good and bad.
And so that's that identity piece that I really struggle with I chose the subway in the classroom. Now, you know, Michelle's not the sweet teacher anymore. So now what?
Kwame
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really powerful I think so I haven't really gone through it as much, but my wife has, when we both came out of the show, she, you know, she had invested pretty much all of her life into being a pediatric speech pathologist. Right? She loves kids. She wants to be around kids. She loves helping them.
It kind of just grows this, like, gift of communication. You know, it's such an important aspect of who she is. And when we stepped away from it, we stepped away because it gave us a significantly better quality of life, you know what I mean? and it's really weird because you do that thing to make your life a little bit better and you make yourself happier in the space that you're in.
But then you start feeling this, these emotions of like, I invested so much of myself into this, and I'm passionate about it, and I care about it not just because of me, but because of the people I'm helping out. And it's like, am I giving up who I am? And that is such an important thing for a lot of people who have like one of these empowering roles, right?
Because at the end of the day, educators really are moving the world, right? They move the needle for they change the world. So it's such a big thing. So I'm glad that you're touching on it a lot. And I know that it's probably been a big transition for you since then. you know, going on as an educator, I guess I'd love to touch on what made you initially become an educator? Right. What was that passion?
Michelle
Think it was something that I was what I was born with. I always loved working with kids. It wasn't just like I liked kids, right? Like, I loved I lit up when I was around them. And I think that's something that my family pointed out to me. or just when it came to being like, the middleman and communication I never had.
Things came super easy to me when I was going through school. And usually you would take like the person who, oh, just gets math and, you know, the smartest person in the room and just knows how to do everything naturally. A lot of times the people who make the best teachers are actually the people who have to work for it because they understand how to explain it, you know, and that they had to take those steps themselves.
And so I think in school, that's what really showed me that I'd be a good teacher, added teacher, who pointed those things out. I had phenomenal teachers. And so from very early on, I always knew that I would make a good teacher, and had a passion for it, and I think it was in high school when I actually got to do a student teaching experience.
That's when I was like, okay, this is definitely what I want to go to college for. and wanted to lead with that for sure.
Scott
I think that's such a powerful point. And like, it hit me like when you said it, just the people who have struggled are almost the best equipped because they understand the struggle. They understand the fight. And it's funny, like just, I don't know, vulnerable moment. But like, I struggle through a lot of things, just like how to navigate being a leader, how to navigate being super ambitious, but then also needing to work with folks.
And it's funny because now I give advice and like I see this struggle that you're, I like, viscerally know what you're going through. And like, you have to know the advice I'm giving you. Like, if you do this, it'll be rewarding. And I think flipping it back on your journey, I think the people who do stick around that are your advocate.
You know, you can express what you have to give to the world in so many different ways. And just because you step away from the classroom doesn't mean you're stepping away from kids. You're stepping away from being an educator. And so I love to get into like, how is that manifested post-teaching? Like, how are you using those gifts and that love for people to like, you know, manifest in a new way?
Michelle
Yeah, I think that the hardest part for me was that I am a people pleaser so I care about people and I want them to be happy. I want them to be proud of what they're doing. I want them to be proud of me. And so it was really hard to almost, like, fall from this platform, that everybody or pedestal that everyone put me on of the teacher.
And then, you know, I stepped aside from that. But the hidden thing that was going on is that I didn't want to step aside. I had to step aside because of my mental health. And so many teachers deal with that and get ridiculed and have all these harsh comments and opinions coming towards them that they're stepping aside from leading the youth.
And it's like, if we were taking care of more, we wouldn't have to step aside. But I physically had to step aside. And so I realized that just because I wasn't in a physical classroom with my fifth graders or with elementary students, doesn't mean that something else can't be in my classroom. And so I took that aspect of it, and I started changing the way that I thought about social media so my platform could be my classroom, whether it's, you know, inspiring through social media, the content I'm doing, motivational speaking, whether it's connecting with other women, whether, you know, like all those different things are what I really started to lean into and feel more myself and get kind of like the teaching folks out of it. That and that passion and like, tap into that passion. And that's what led me to really create that impact movement of using my platform to help other nonprofits and other causes and movements and to be able to give them that, you know, visual piece of what they were doing and spread that message.
And then was like, hey, like, why wouldn't I just create my own nonprofit, too, and really lean into, you know, the basketball side of it that I absolutely have always loved? And then the teaching side of it, too, that is still really fresh in my brain and still really want to make some type of change with it. And so that's what put those two pieces together of really realizing what I could do with it, learning more about social media and the reach I have, and also kind of going where like, not a lot of other influencers have gone with it, with creating that piece.
And I think that social media is great. It's really toxic at times too. But there are so many powerful things that can be done and the great now is there's a huge negative connotation around influencers, like the word influencing. I think so many people cringe. I even cringe sometimes around it because it's like the materialistic and if influencing and social media can turn back to like causes, making positive movements pushes forward.
That right there, like positive influence. That's huge to me.
Kwame
Yeah, I think you hit on two things that I want to touch on, like the creator versus influencer thing. You know, it's really funny.
Yeah, we are a company. We're an entire organization that focuses on influencer management. Right. And the funny thing about it is, like sometimes we don't even like to use the word because of what it's become, you know, like, I feel like for a long time the idea of an influencer and it's like thrown around if you see it on hashtags around, it's like influencers in the wild.
And it's these people doing like, you know, street dances and stuff.
Michelle
But like, the thing is, is like, that's okay. Like that's that. That's what I also come around to it too, is, that's okay. Like, who am I to judge if someone is videotaping themselves dancing in the street? Honestly, when I see that, I'm like, wow, I wish I had the guts to do that because I still like brand before I take out my phone and like, take a selfie or like video, anything in public.
But yeah, there's so much negative energy around it for like, you know, some part, you know, good and some that's just kind of, you know.
Kwame
Yeah, I think, I think it's like the, the transition of like that, that idea of influencing through generations because I feel like, you know, the current generation looks at it as like it's this cool, iconic thing. And I feel like previous generations and I look at it like it's kind of a joke, you know what I mean? When in actuality, anything that you do that generates any kind of attention nowadays, especially on social media, is something that can like you can make that your business.
So I do think, like we all need to start taking that a bit more seriously. We had Charlie DiMeo or I think, whatever, I can't pronounce your name. Yeah, yeah. Who used to do the same dance over and over for 30 days and she's the most followed person, the most quote-unquote influential person on TikTok, you know, so people who do TikTok dances, they've they've got some ground.
Michelle
Yeah.
Kwame
Yeah. Right. So with that being said, I also wanted to kind of just touch on the, the, you know, the educator piece. Right. And also like the foundation piece, you know, as someone who and you mentioned that you said that's not really an area that most influencers tap into me personally, I would love to eventually get there.
I think that it's an area that I want to head to. I try my best to dip my foot in as many different, you know, foundations and as many different causes as I can, especially starting locally. Right. And so for creators who are looking to go towards maybe starting a foundation and doing something positive in that sense, what are the first steps like how did you initiate and how do you go from there.
Michelle
Really realizing that it's what you want to do because it is a commitment, and I think it's a commitment. When you come out of the spotlight world and the online world is a lot of people don't care, right? If you think about what's getting likes and what gets attention online, it's not there really like cool moments, not the nonprofits that are like the leading pages.
It's not all these other things. It's like you said, like the materialistic things. Or maybe the more superficial, like the gossip and the drama. And there is like, you know, I mean, everyone I think likes could have been drawn into a certain like it's interesting to a certain point. Right. But understanding that this is what you want to do and that there are like-minded people like you that are interested in it, that are passionate about it, and that there's so much more outside of the social media game.
And I think that's what I've had to really learn. And I'm still learning with it, because you do sit and look at your numbers, and you do sit and look at like, what kind of content does well and you want to make a living on it and all those different things, right? You want it to stay healthy and sustainable, but it is hard because it's like you can post nonprofit stuff and people don't seem to care as much.
And so I think with me, I had to really understand, okay, it's end of the day. It's like my purpose. It's the lives that I've changed. But, you know, when I get to the end of the road, like, what have I done? Okay. And I, for me prioritize helping other people and that's what's important to me. And so when my time is up or, you know, when I take a look or if I pause and look back at what I've done, I'm looking at the things that I've impacted that have made a positive difference.
That's what holds weight for me. And it's less of these other, you know, superficial things that might have more legs. And honestly, that kind of doesn't really play out until you get a lot older and that, you know, time's on this up and you start rethinking your whole life. And hopefully, I make it that far. But, you know, like that, I think when you start, people have like the biggest regret of what they did with their time.
And I don't think I will ever have or won't allow myself to have that regret because, you know, maybe we'll have the most liked video on the internet, which is like chocolate-covered strawberries, I'm pretty sure, right now. But like, you know, I don't know, last time I checked, you guys know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Strawberries. What is that?
But, I was like, you know, the most liked video, but I will have made a damn big impact on some people. And that's what I care about. And so it's kind of keeping that in the forefront of my mind. And I definitely have to remind myself or have to have, you know, my close family members or friends remind me, but it's hard.
So you had to decide that you want to do it, and you have to have a good group of people around you who are going to remind you, like why you're in the game because it's not the shiny and pretty and beautiful thing. It's the roll your sleeves up, dirty work, putting out fires, you know, because you can.
So you can lift other people up. It's not you're not the one lifting you know, getting lifted up. That's not why you do it.
Scott
I love that I think, you know, a couple of things you hit on, which is just finding what is important to you and what you believe in. And it's funny because I think, you know, a lot of us have thought about how can we get back, where do we want to get back? And it's funny because, you know, there's something that I do feel like people have this internal desire to help people, but they don't know where, or they don't feel like they can give back.
And it's one of the things you said that hit me really hard was like, you know, I just thought, why can't I start my own nonprofit? And that's like such a faraway thought for so many people. but I think it's when you shift your mindset to believing that you can do something and you can generate an impact that's outsized.
It's pretty incredible. The other thing that you talked about was, and I think it's a core theme, what you've been talking about is taking the relationship, is taking the community and the impact you have off of social media into real life. And so many times, almost every conversation we've had, we've asked like, what are some of your favorite moments?
Like it's running into someone on the street. It's getting my superfans together and I feel like we're best friends. It's like the people who show up on my Twitch stream every single day. I know their name. They know me. Yeah, we get in a room and it's like we've known each other all along. And so I do think, you know, one encouragement for creators is I try to foster a real community.
And also don't be afraid to, you know, take that community with you and engage in real life. And, I love that you're doing that. I love that you're speaking. I love that you know, you've done the foundation work, and starting to build a true community. It's it's excellent.
Michelle
Thank you. Yeah. It's been it's been a process and it's, it's now getting to a point where you can, like, see some of the benefits that have like things are starting to roll now. So it's cool because you're seeing the impact. But when you're sitting and all that paperwork, you know. Like, why am I doing this?
Scott
You you're like, I could be looking for a man in finance to like, come over.
Michelle
Why? I chose to help people. Right. Yeah. I that there is like you said, Scott, there's just everyone has that piece inside of them where you feel good when you help other people and no matter what type of profession or what type of life you're living, there's always room or space to do that, whether it's like paying it forward, you know, paying for someone's order, whether it's holding a door if you don't have that capacity to pay for something like it's not always donating massive amounts of money.
There are so many other ways to do it. And that's kind of my piece is showing the people who kind of come across my page and see what I'm doing is you don't have to sit and start a nonprofit. You can just choose to serve and like, give back to other people. and it goes such a long way.
Have you guys heard of this app? This is the ADHD kicking in but this app, I need to put you on this app because I just had my first call, and it's actually life-changing, and it's for. I'm gonna jump on real quick because I want to see what it is. I need to see what I have to give you the name of this.
It's you can help people who, are like, who are blind, who are struggling with, like, their vision impaired vision. And you can talk them through what they're seeing. So, like, there is a huge app that you apply to be on, and then you'll get a call and like, I will step out, I will step out of a meeting I want to say about this podcast, don't worry.
But like I'll step like his because you'll only get like 1 or 2 a year and you get to help that person through something. It's such a simple task, but like the gratification that you get after just helping somebody random is so, so big. And I got on this thread, it's not a Reddit thread, but I caught it on Called Be My Eyes and it's you literally just have an app on your phone. If you have the app on your phone and you sign up for it, you'll get a random notification and you can click on it. You can do it really fast. And like millions of people were on this app and everyone's like, wants to be the one to help whoever, but you can help them, like guide them through something.
So it might be like actually like untying a knot. It might be trying to sort out, like the red sweater versus the black sweater. Like it can be a simple task. It can be, you know, a longer task. But after I got done helping and I was just actually picking out an outfit for a really important interview, and after I got done helping, like I felt so good and I was having a really hard day and a really hard week.
And I just like it, put everything in perspective and it was so, so, so cool. It's got to be my eyes. But it was just amazing. I was like, that's what really kind of reset me back on track of like, okay, I feel so much more of myself when I help other people. And I picked out some of these outfit for an interview, like, and then donated $10,000.
You know, I didn't whatever. Like I was so, so, so small and it was so big. And this app is in people's lives. It's crazy.
Scott
It is funny like I it resonated so much like the times that I have helped someone or given a few bucks, like someone at the grocery. Oh, we got to go put that back. And you're like, you're not gonna put that back. Just like, here's ten bucks. Like, we got it. Like it's okay. Like it was funny. I was with my kids.
I was telling me I was at this, like Sky Zone jump park your kid got. He actually made it at the warped wall. He's like a ten-year-old. He got stuck on top. And I was like, I felt like a superhero because, like, helped him down. And I was like, I didn't do anything. I just, like, walked up and I'm like, held him down.
But it was like just a little moment, like, this kid's like losing his mind, afraid. And you're like, just doing little things like that. It's funny because, like, you know, you can go write a big check, but it's like little moments where you see the interaction like you see in their eyes how meaningful it was to do. Yeah.
To help them out. I love that. , I think it's interesting. So, you know, so much of what you're doing is, is giving back. And you talked a little bit about the kind of the financial, the brand side of social media. Have you gone into that side? Have you done brand deals, like how do you manage the balance between the brand deal side and that dynamic with also wanting to build community, and wanting to give back?
I'm curious how you kind of balance out for yourself.
Michelle
Yeah, I kind of see it as you have to make a living. Okay. So in order for me to be able to keep a nonprofit or not to keep it running, but in order to start a nonprofit, you're usually as like the founder that you're putting like 5250 K in yourself to, like, get it up and running. And like a lot of times you can raise that.
And so I definitely was able to raise a good portion of that. But it's still like a lot of your own money going into it. So you have to make a living. You have to have that piece of it. And so for me, like I have done a decent amount of brand deals or I have worked with brands and a lot of times I just had a fundraising dinner, I challenge the brands to donate a piece of that to the nonprofit.
And so the brands who collaborate with me are aware that I'm doing this. I'm on this mission because I have this nonprofit and a lot of times are donating products. I was like fundraising items. I have a lot of brands that I worked with, donate a ton of different products so that we could put it into all these bags that we are giving to, like large fundraisers, or auctioning off.
And so there is really huge balance with that. It's also like I make sure that I only do brand deals that align with me and also align with the nonprofit as well because I'm working with children here. So, you know, like there are certain products, there's certain brands that I'm like, it's not when do very good or be very good.
Like, if I were to work with you. and so it's just really being mindful of that, but also understanding that you know, I don't know you, you have to make a living, but like, I yeah, it's kind of it's a weird, weird balance, but I will never rap a brand or like, support a brand that I haven't tried.
And so I'm not like those people who don't send me products. Hey, we want to give you this much money. and we need the content by the end of the week. I'm like, if I haven't used this skin product for like two weeks and know how my skin responds to it, I can't just, like, sit and shout you out because I don't know how it works.
So there are times where I have turned down, you know, it's been painful to turn down, like certain paychecks and, a certain amount of figures, but it keeps me aligned with who I am. And at the end of the day, I would never give that up for anything because it's really hard to maintain that, and it's really easy to lose that.
So I hold on to it.
Kwame
Yeah, it's a good way to think about things. And as you're going through and having your selective moments with brands, what would you say has been your favorite brand or do you have a few favorite brands or deals that you've done?
Michelle
Yeah, I have a few. I really like the experience. Just because, I mean, I love makeup, I love fashion, I love all of that. I do have a huge passion for that. But right now it's been like the experience. So I worked with a brand called Sonder, and it's similar to Airbnb, but it really just cuts down the costs.
Like, you know how when you go in, like selecting me, I'm not trying to trash Airbnb, but, you know, you like to have like all the massive tax that comes in and all of a sudden, like, your price triples. and so with Sonder, they have places all over the world. So I was able to travel Italy, Italy, like, all through Europe, with one of my girlfriends.
And they put us up, and it was just a really cool experience because I was able to meet so many people. I did a cooking class in Venice, where I did a brand deal, and that was really cool because again, like, I'm, we're cooking in a completely different country. It takes a pause of being able to, like, step away from yourself, and learn about a different culture.
And those are the things that I really remember and that, I don't know, just like creating the best memories because it's an experience. So anything where I get to travel and do all those things.
Scott
I'm glad to say Sonder, by the way, because we run all their influencer program, their customer of ours, and oh really? So we manage their influencer program. So it's it's good to hear that they're treating you right.
Michelle
And I honestly, didn't know that. I promise you, that was. No, I didn't I didn't plant this for sure, which is nice to hear that. No, I thought about that question long and hard, but yeah, it's been a really cool to just work with them.
Scott
And it's been. That's awesome. That's great to hear. So we always ask this question too. If you could have any one aspirational brand that you say if reached out to, this would be an amazing day to do a collaboration with them. What's that one brand for you?
Michelle
I feel like it changes so often just because everything changes and you learn more and more about brands as things, you know, the longer that they're on social media. But I would say it's been pretty cool to watch Fenty and Rihanna and just everything she's doing, when it just comes to inclusion, finally having, you know, makeup that matches certain skin tones and just really kind of overcoming that type of barrier, just everything, just showing women that they can do it, that women are beautiful, especially, you know, darker tone, women complexion are men and women are beautiful.
And they just have been doing it in such a graceful way. So I think the message behind that brand, has been really powerful and I think has come into its own just even over like the last year, it's been cool to watch.
Scott
I love that, I think, I think Tiffany, kind of. Yeah. Her brand was Fenty too, and.
Michelle
She had so many, so many cool things. And just I mean, how Rihanna just handles influencers that work with her and you can just catch videos. And I actually met her when I was at one of her events, right when I got off the show and she, like, knew me by name and she just takes time to get to know people.
And I really appreciate that with somebody who is of that magnitude and has had that level of success, and that shows a lot.
Scott
That's awesome. Yeah.
Kwame
Yeah, that is that is super cool. I mean, we hear the brand pretty often, so, it means they're doing something right. but I honestly think, yeah, I think we should just start clipping everyone saying Fenty and send it over to Brianna.
So, like, with the brands that you've gotten to work with, have you established the creative process in your head yet, or like, how does that how does that work out for you?
Michelle
It's ever-changing because I think the market is ever-changing. And I think, I mean, we all like roll our eyes at the words algorithm, the algorithm is shit. Like, right? By the time you kind of figure it out, it's already changing. But I think, I have always been very creative and I've been more so into like painting and all that kind of stuff, but I've really been able to lean into like video creation and kind of playing around with a lot of different things.
And so I definitely have come into my own with being able to just how I can edit over, like the in-depth things. And I didn't go to school for content creation, then go to school for video editing. But I feel like I do a pretty damn good job. been told that have gotten that feedback. And so I just, feel like I'm never short of ideas, and I lean with it, and I like to take risks with it.
And it's been nice to have brands that trust me to do that. And it's been, you know, paying off. So really, just like being okay with being creative, like content creation is creative and you don't always just do what everyone else is doing and be the first one to do something different. And I've been able to open some brand's eyes with that, and it's been cool to see them grow from it and just get the positive feedback from it.
Kwame
So nice. Do you, do you know Justin Glaze, by any chance? He was also he's in the Bachelorette universe.
Michelle
Yeah. Yep, yep. Hammonds is it?
Kwame
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are. And I still have to get him on this podcast at some point because it's funny, I know he was on The Bachelorette, but like, where I really remember him is just purely from his content. His content is so funny and engaging and so him that it's just like it almost feels like, I don't know, I always say like, I wish they both land a spot on a soap opera because it's incredibly artistic.
Michelle
They are fun when they put their mind together and he's got the facial expressions like, you know, we can't teach Scott, you can't teach. He's got the facial expressions for it all. So yeah, he's he's it's been cool to see his creative side. And I do follow him and says it's been cool to see what they do.
And I will say that when you're scrolling, you won't even like recognize that it's an ad. And I love that. And I think that there are a lot of content creators that want to do that. but, you know, if you get a brand deal and you have like all these things that you have to hit, a lot of times people don't want to take that risk to, like, let people lean into the trends or lean into different like creative sides.
So it really takes like both sides taking that risk together with it. so that it's not just this bland step-by-step, because I've also been in positions where you have to, you know, we want this, we want this. It's like really cut and dry and there's no wiggle room. That's hard.
Scott
It's a great lesson to the brands out there. Let the let the creators have some creative control. Like they know their audience. They know what's what's gonna hit exactly. And then you can review it if it if it's if it's not going to land or there's some issue with it, go back and work on it again.
Michelle
Right. Absolutely. And like that's that's the stuff that gets traction anyways. The stuff that's just so organic or just authentic. I feel like those words are so overused. But you know, that, yeah.
Kwame
They, come off cliched, but in actuality they really are like the most important things, right?
Michelle
They really are. It's not it's not going to feel like an ad and have fun.
Kwame
So exactly. So as we get closer to kind of wrapping this up, there's a couple questions that, you know, we want to make sure that we, we touch on with creators and one of those is if you could look back and tell yourself anything from the beginning of your journey, right, that, you know, based on what you know now, is there something that you would correct or change about how you did everything?
Michelle
Yeah, definitely turn your brain off to just post. I think I overthought so much content that I just didn't post. and I was just trying to sit and like, perfected and actually just post it, it just post it. I still struggle with that. Like, how many things are sitting in my drafts right now, but just post them because, yeah, I think the people who are going to be unhappy with it are going to be unhappy with it.
Obviously not post anything that's, you know, taking down a of people or, you know, hurting other people or things like that, like think before you post, but don't really second guess yourself too much when you know, should I post this? I really want to, you know, post this on this. Just just do it like give it a shot.
And I think there's going to be people who are always going to learn to laugh at you. You know from high school, we're going to make fun of what you're doing and chasing after your dreams and whatever it is. But like, there's going to be people talking either way. So just go.
Kwame
Yeah, I think staying on that, it's like, I've had experiences where, you know, when I, I would give myself almost the exact same advice. And it's funny because it is something that's pretty often come up with creators. When I first started, I wanted my life before I was in the public eye. I loved the way that my grid looked.
Because I'm a photographer, I love creativity, and I'm just like, I want it to look like this curated piece of art. You know? And then when I became a creator, I'd have some, you know, I'd have some brand deals or brand opportunities and I'd be like, well, I don't know if I can post that often or post this style because I'm like, I don't know.
It goes against my grain. So for the first year and a half that I was a creator, I was basically solely in my stories. Like I barely posted on my grid. yeah, because I was I was so hesitant. I was like, man, it's going to mess up what I've kind of been working for in this outlook. But then later on, as time went on, I realized, that sometimes some things will hit, some time, some things will miss.
Yeah, one thing doesn't necessarily stunt the other. I remember having a post that like had like 220 likes or something like two weeks ago, and then the exact like the very next day I posted, a reel that got 3 million views right? Was just like that one hit, you know? So just like, go with it, see what happens.
Michelle
Yeah. And not everything is going to go viral.
Kwame
Yeah, exactly.
Scott
It's so funny because the only person who cares about a post not performing is you. Because you're not.
Michelle
On a recording. I need to, like, write that on my bathroom. Sure.
Scott
Like I'm not going through your feed and analyzing your views on, like, some real story that disappeared, like, yeah, the one that went viral. We'll see it. We're like, oh man, that thing has like 5 million views. That's crazy. That's amazing. But no one's out there like, so really dropped the ball on this.
Going to 5,000 is what a failure.
Michelle
That's so like that's so true. I have thought about that often because it's like we are all thinking about our own stuff and like our own anxieties and stressors. So of course you're not thinking about what I'm doing because you're thinking about what you're doing. Like, it's just some people should be thinking about what they're doing more, you know, and less about to, like.
Yeah, just it just goes.
Kwame
Yeah, yeah. And then, one last question for you, for me at least, is what's next? What's on the horizon for Michelle?
Michelle
We're really looking to scale with the nonprofits, the Mission Foundation. We ran a pilot program and it went phenomenal. We got amazing feedback and so we're in this huge, like, fundraising push right now, to be able to open up more, programs across Minnesota. And then we're also in LA and are looking to open up like throughout the US.
So we'll be kind of applying licenses and different things like that, getting that up and ready. and then really just leaning into motivational content and leaning into that balance piece because I have gotten to this work, work, work, work work, mode and remembering to take time to take a pause and enjoy it, because I've just been really onto the next thing, on to the next thing, onto the next thing.
Never short of goals that I want to accomplish, but life is really in between achieving those and so like putting in the brakes a little bit and enjoying time with just family, friends, and accomplishments that have already happened. And I think that's where the creativity comes in.
Scott
So we love it. It's it's so great to see people like you be successful. You have such a genuine heart, a genuine care for people, and it's awesome to see you engaging with your community, engaging with Minnesota and like your fans and giving back in a new way. And you know, it's funny because the whole journey randomly started out in trying to find a kind of love and relationship and who you are in the future.
And somehow through all of this, you found love in a different way. You found success, you found what you were called to do, and I love that for you. And so, you know, we'll be huge champions of you. You can't wait to see what you do with Foundation. there's definitely a lot out there for you.
Michelle
Thank you so much. And yeah, this has been one of like, my favorite podcast conversation is just with the genuine nature of you able to. So I appreciate the attention and the depth on just things that matter. So thank you for sure.
Kwame
With that being said, thank you, everyone, today for tuning in. Thank you so much, Michelle, for being with us. This was definitely one of the deepest and, I'd say most enriching, conversations that we've had. So we appreciate you again for stopping by. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. We will see you next week on Beyond Influence.